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Your Employer Super Contribution may be being eroded by a life insurance policy you didn't know was even attached .... it may not even show up in your statement !
Most Fees and minus Moneys ARE taken out BEFORE the numbers you see on your statement YOU NEED TO ASK !
Wow this is a bit of a long story but one that will have you investigating your kids Superannuation Scheme if not your own.
Heaps of Kids and peoples who have had various jobs are being ripped off because every Employer Super policy could have a "secret life Insurance cover with it" or worse.
Please Note....don't go crook at your Employer, or past Employers / Payroll peoples, they probably know as much as you unless they have already been through this complaint..... you need heaps of info from your employer so keep them onside at all cost's.... better still, don't say anything until this page is finished. This page last updated 30/5/08
Introduction to Superannuation from our angle : Most reading this will not have heard of the saying .... it's worth 5/8th of f#*^k all, which pretty much sums it up for us as a family anyway. Some years ago some Fat ass in Government dreamed up a thing called Superannuation ( fatass = someone who sits at a desk too long, dreams up scenario's for the rest of us to follow, and has no idea what happens in the real world ) .... you see 'em in all walks of life. Over the past few months talking to various customer service centers and higher, I have asked a basic question......Tell me in 10 words or less what you think Super is? and then tell me what's happened to my sons Super Value currently sitting on $1.99. By the way, basically Super is a Government requirement that all employers put money into a Fund so when you grow old and grey there's a heap of taxable cash waiting for you. ( Heaps of Dollars when ya retire .... I did it in 6 words ) It is not a Government guaranteed return of investment! ( although the Government makes us go through this process ) Your fund could be totally lost if the mob you got it with go broke ( they usually get to keep all their hidden assets like houses, swimming pools, and Rolls Royce's though :) oh and hidden bank accounts. Your fund may also not perform because of bad investment / times / timing or performance NOT ON YOUR PART ( they give us a limited choice to make us feel we are in control ) Your fund may also be eroded by fees / mostly hidden YOU MAY NOT FIND THEM ON A STATEMENT and hidden "attached" insurance policies which you MAY HAVE NO IDEA YOU HAD which was our problem. Your fund is probably going backwards if you stop contributing ( out of work or start a new job with another fund, and forget all about older funds, ya need to roll em into one and pay more fees ) No doubt there is a heap of other things going on that LOWER YOUR END RETURN like entry / exit fees etc You get paid what the fund feels like returning at the time of withdraw ! Basically I reckon Super is an industry created by experts to reap even yet more dollars out of ordinary workers in this Country. I read somewhere people are loosing more than 30 or 40k in funds and fees over a working lifetime ( if that wasn't pre planned I'll go " he " ) ALL THIS WHILE THEY PLAY WITH OUR MONEY FOR THE DURATION OF OUR WORKING LIFE ! IE the Government created and "made us all" support an industry ( Super ) without it's backing to at the very least, get back what we put into it ! ( see fatass description above ). I believe Super should have been totally a Government thing, they could have kept people employed, made a heap of money and totally guarantee the return ( remember Super is a Government requirement ).... at least if the Country's broke, we are ALL in the same position. So we all know most of the above isn't going to change............here's our story :
Aaron's starts part time work around August 2006 : Like most would do, we assumed the employer was dumping dollars into a Fund somewhere as required by law, we had no real need or interest in " looking it up " we didn't even know who the Fund was with until...... December 2007 we get a letter from ANZ Bank / ING Insurance Company stating in part, " The last premium received for your Group Life Cover was 17 April 2007. This means your insurance premiums are 254 days in arrears. The Total outstanding is $36.66" What life cover !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ??? My first impression was that his employer was paying for this cover as some sort of bonus / scheme, we had no idea that this life insurance policy was in place, we had never received ANY PAPERWORK AT ALL on this subject, no statements, nothing! Our first statement arrived on the 5th Feb 08 after demanding such from the "Customer Service" and even then didn't get sent all info asked for.....why? because they didn't actually have it . . . all they had on file was a name & phone number, and of course the Employer details who was putting in the Super Contributions ! It gets more Juicy Read On : This Life Cover ( we believe ) is secretly attached to the Super Fund Aaron's employer popped him in with ANZ / ING. During Aaron's employment process ( all that paperwork with a new job ) there is mention of Super Fund requirements, NO MENTION of any insurance, life or otherwise. The Life Insurance Premiums were "Secretly Paid" from his "Super account" as he earned enough each cycle. He has never knowingly authorized any insurance policy, let alone having pay for one out of his Super Fund, to top it all off ! So over a Year and a half the so called GOOD GOVERNMENT IDEA of Super isn't looking so good hey.......... you could imagine the time and effort it's taken to actually complain and get enough info together to file a complaint, we struggle on. Remember I stuff around with motorbikes, I do some sums n things, but I knew bugger all about Super, I only know a little more now ( Trish is also busy working her guts out, so she delegated me... she said i'd enjoy the music between call centers, and expand my knowledge of the real world..... nice hey ). We are still in process with ANZ and ING, basically we are after every cent his employer paid the Super fund, may not be much, but it's Aaron's money not ANZ or ING's! He didn't know he was giving all his Super to a Secret life insurance policy! Snippets of what we have learned : The life policy....... the usual life policy ( in our case and probably most others attached to Super ) Is not like the 'ol days when you popped in so much a month and if at some stage later wished to cash it in you could, and if your lucky, got a lil interest also. NOT THESE DAYS, you are paying IN, the only way you get something back is AFTER YOUR DEAD! In our case we are known to be involved in hi risk activities....= NO COVER! The list goes on with reasons for the insurance company not to pay out......Disability cover, ya gotta loose a whole eye, a full limb etc etc. ( Go invest 20 bucks a month in a Balanced Fund for 40 years and see how ya get on.....oh and if ya still alive...... you get ta spend it, and still pay the Tax :) Super fees........( the ones I know anyway ) Aaron has two funds ( works two jobs ). If you go find your Fund Statement you may find that the only negative figures are for the Contributions Tax and if you have a life policy that isn't hidden a deduction for that. Our dealings with ANZ / ING I can't really comment on coz basically I have limited info as described above, I'm learning more every day, but his other Super policy with BT, clearly shows the above deductions and more importantly in the paragraph directly below tells you how that company get it's fees. It doesn't sound good but at least we know...... as his Fund balance is low, that company takes it's fees from interest earned etc from his Fund. This at least preserves "if only" the real dollars put in, less the other fees on the statement. Not a BIG NEGATIVE / HIDDEN situation like we have with ANZ / ING. Minimum amount in the Super Fund....... I like this one..... it seems there is a minimum amount of $800 or $1000 under which if your Super Fund falls to or is below that value, NO ONE IS SUPPOSED TO TOUCH IT BY LAW ? (someones tellin porkies hey ) Summary : We are asking ANZ / ING for all Aarons Super contributions paid by his employer to be returned, regardless of where they ended up. 6th Feb, after 2 weeks or more of so called "Customer Service", both on the phone and local at our ANZ Branch ( no use at all ) and after intervention from his employer, ( not that easy for her either ) his payroll lady rang, and said ANZ / ING would "reverse" the payment back to his super account. My research so far tells me the word is "payments".....not payment, and we'd like all the dollars in cheque form in the post and or Both the Super and Insurance "arrangements / funds" closed / rolled over to a NON ANZ ING Fund at no cost to Aaron. We would consider donating the current balance value of the Fund $1.99 to ANZ / ING to go buy batteries for a calculator and better keep consumers aware of how their Super Funds are performing in " Real Net Terms " and " Real Fee Terms ". ( and you better read OUR terms n conditions before we consider that ) 19th Feb, we were advised by phone that all monies paid into the life policy have been reversed into the ANZ Super Fund. In the next few days in the mail would be a fund Roll Over Form in which we can transfer to a Super Fund of our choice. The good news is this will be done FREE OF FEES. Today I learnt another guideline, which is.... if your Super Fund has less than $1000 in it, rollovers should be free of charges . . . .Use this guideline if they hit you up for fees, If you have had a few jobs with less than $1000 in various Funds, it's a great time to slot them all into 1 Fund using this guideline as an excuse for No Fees. Just don't forget to check out if there are hidden insurance policies that need sorting first. EVERY Super Policy has a Life Cover attached to it apparently required by law, YOU NEED TO ASK as mentioned earlier...it may not get a mention on your statement or previous paperwork from YOUR Super Fund. It is up to you, if you want to stop an insurance policy ( hidden or otherwise ) from eating into your Super! and even if you want half a dozen life policies at all. If you have Super Funds lying idle, these premiums are probably still emptying your dollars out ! 20th Feb, we opened the mail from ANZ ING and found THIS LETTER the 6th letter since the start of this ordeal, not to mention the million phone calls and lost time chasing up. If you have an ANZ - ING - Rest - or others, Superannuation Fund and didn't know about the insurance....SORT IT NOW Write a letter to your Fund simply stating " through Freedom Of Choice " you were not given the chance to knowingly accept or deny the insurance part of your Super. Listen to all the crap they throw at you ( be polite ) and then tell 'em a full refund back to the Super account will do just fine. ( check how good the Super Fund is doing later ) Here's a copy of OUR LETTER to help you This is Standard Super Industry practice...... the Super Industry is so well regulated, they all do the same thing, count the Dollars your employer is putting in....and frequently check on what your Fund is worth......DON'T WAIT 40 YEARS to find out she's either empty or not as much as you were counting on. 10th April, we finally get another letter from ANZ Super Advantage stating that all funds have been transferred to Aarons nominated Fund. Of course the amount transferred wasn't quite as hi as expected as we do know of payments made to this fund ( by their own admission ) which aren't reflected in the final Rollover . . . no we won't be chasing up the difference as it's taken more than 6 months to achieve what we have! ( That's what they want . . . so they get to keep the money )
Summery of useless to most helpful from our point of view :
Our first calls were to the Customer Service Line 133863, most helpful there was a lady Loren Beattie, who over a long time was probably the most handy at the Call Center, Chris was almost useless, and Stuart completely useless if not arrogant, this bloke is in the wrong job! (names may not be spelt right ).
ANZ Commercial Street West Mt. Gambier . . . We strolled into our local ANZ on 3 occasions . . . Visit # 1 The Lady at the Help desk was of no use whatsoever ( can't remember her name ) so it was back to the Call Center after that trip. Visit #2 The second trip resulted in us asking more direct and by now more informed questions trying to get some help on the matter, still ended up no use what so ever, so back to the call center yet again! Visit # 3 This was my favorite experience of the whole fiasco . . . We strolled in armed with all the paperwork we had gathered up so far and asked to see the Manager . . . wouldn't ya know it..... he or she was out! But this Help Desk Lady was a bit of a chatter so feeling like we might learn something....we kept her chatting. She ended up heading "out the back" to try and get answers from their "in house" Financial Planners / Super Reps.....each time she came back out to us, i'd ask another question, and she'd go back. Anyway turns out the fella she was asking this stuff, ended up coming out to the front, but not to see us........"he was on his was to lunch" and didn't want to stop and chat, even though the Lady asked him to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So our ever helpful Lady said let's see what on the computer, that may help answer some of our questions.....so she took us around to the lil cubical which is where we logged in online to see what details were on. This was the first time we had accessed this info online ( it was nice of her to set it up for us ). It was there we discovered Aaron's ANZ Super Fund was worth $1.99 which, as you could imagine, invited yet even a few more questions. As we delved deeper we also discovered that this Insurance Policy had no details whatsoever on it about Aaron, which of course backed up our argument of no prior knowledge..... so, this nice Lady was now thinking that she'd been or was getting a little too helpful and promptly handed us the Banking Ombudsmen's complaint booklet and said...." I have to terminate our discussion, please read the book". . . . . shit....it's back to the Call Center for us yet again ! But at least we learned even more !
As the months ticked on, by Lady Luck we were given the phone number of Adrian Hobbs 0399183527 in Anz / Ing Super . . "Relations Manager" . I would have to say without doubt, this bloke is the ONLY USEFUL PERSON we have come across in the Six months of sorting this ANZ / ING crap out, thank you Adrian. If you having problems, find this bloke.....I'm guessing he won't be on this phone number for too long :) Super and the bottom line for all of us . . . . Tip # 1 Your Super Fund should be in the control of someone you can physically visit "For Free Updates", as the buggers are probably making about 30 or 40 grand out of your Fund, based on a full working life. Tip # 2 If you have to deal with your Fund on the Phone with no local approachable Rep for free ...... Change your Super Fund right now, you will be loosing money ! Tip # 3 You don't need an accountant . . . it's Simple . . . Just add up all your Fund contributions from all and previous Employers & Look at the current value of your Unit Holdings THEN ASK your Fund Manager what your EXIT VALUE would be at that time. Keep a record and do this at least once a Year so you can keep an eye on it's Bottom Line Value in terms of Growth ( Hopefully ) Don't rely solely on Performance Figures Advertised . . . You need Bottom Line info to compare each time, comparing Contribution Totals to your Pay Out is the only real figure you need to keep an eye on, and if you smell a rat . . . ASK . . . Why don't my figures match your advertised performance???! Yip # 4 Don't be afraid to ask how much have you lost in fees etc as you will only be ever told what you ask, if you don't ask direct questions, you will be loosing money, it's sad but true. The Fund operators " Don't have to tell you anything" coz it's in the Product Disclosure Statement . . . They " Do however ", have to answer your every question or enquiry " So if you struggle to understand the "statement" don't worry, as long as you stick the the Bottom Line argument, it's then up to your Fund to "Please Explain" your every enquiry.
Just like any Insurance etc they will only ever pay what they absolutely have too, as always it's the normal working Australian that looses the most, " Our Employers Fund the Fund ", we shouldn't have to run to Accountants an spend heaps of time and money chasing up issues on "Our Funds" Remember Super is a Government Requirement, Employers are Funding this " Super Industry " and we loose through what should be better performance, which as Consumers, we have absolutely no control over. PS . . . . This should be the last update on this saga . . . We learned heaps, and so did a lot of Kids / Moms n Dads, Hits and Feedback on this page have been excellent, so i'm glad we went to the bother . . . also....the info contained here is of our view only with this actual experience, our comments are to be taken lightly, we don't intend to offend anyone, we just told it like it is. If we accidentally do, take me to lunch and tell me why, and I'll correct any part not right from our point of view.
Better still.....if you have found this article handy......you could take me to lunch anyway ! read also disclaimer at www.thearmsreport.com.au we hope your Super Experience is better than ours !
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - My eyeballs are popping out : Ya never guess what turned up in the mail yesterday............all the same shit for Simon.........different company " REST " so you tell me this is not normal Super Industry Practice ! At least we can copy paste coz we've already done the hard yards just change the name of who's doing the ripping ! When you receive this pack in the mail, this is exactly what it means...... 1 . Your employer has just made your first Super Contribution ( this could be as in kids cases some years after they start work coz they have to earn something like 450.00 in a cycle to qualify to pay Super) 2 . It also means you most likely have had a insurance life policy attached to it since your work start date ( they have just emptied your Super to pay the first premium which backdates to when you started work ) and that's just the start of your wonderful relationship :) Please remember our main complaint so far is the insurance and the way they go about it, not the Super side ....... we haven't started there yet :) more info here soon
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